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Post by MG on Jul 8, 2010 13:31:50 GMT -5
Alright, this is the most historically significant post on this site. This thread will crown the greatest textual combatant of all time. From its birth in the 90's, these fiighters have stood out from the rest. I ask everyone not included in this list to salute these fighters. They are the best at what we do.
#5. Squall Lionhart / Kyros Valchion Trained By: Rias Representing: Chars Accomplishments: Unified Divisions as Protector of Chars by Being the Best in Speed and TB
For a while, nobody could beat Squall in speed or TB. He was the most well rounded fighter on the net for a significant amount of time.
#4. Blue Lightning Flik Trained By: Rias? Representing: Chars Records: Undefeated Champion Accomplishments: Undisputed King of Fighting -Some view him as the greatest TBer ever -Beat everyone he's faced
Vs. Kyros Speed: Flik TB: Flik Hybrid: Probably Flik
Flik is the only fighter to stay undefeated after becoming the champion. This is probably because he retired before the MG-Kael-Hiro-DSG era but nevertheless it's quite the feat. He could beat all comers in all styles.
#3. Circ Aloriath Trained By: ? Homechat: Ac3 Metawerx Fighting Out Of: GT League
Circ is the most complete fighter of all time. He's superb in both speed and TB. He's known to leave people in awe of his writing skills.
Vs. Flik Speed: This would have been a hell of a fight. However, Flik was undefeated in his speed career and was the #1 guy for a while. Circ wasn't so Flik gets the nod.
TB: Another hell of a fight. Circ has accomplished more so he gets the nod.
Hybrid: Circ is the more adaptable and longer styles weren't around in Flik's era so Circ gets the nod.
Honorary Mention: Nonpareil Trained By: ? Homechat: Castle Blackfyre Fighting Out Of: GT League Records: The Greatest TBer of All Time -Undefeated against MG in speed (2-0) Notable Wins: Defeated Hiro / Atreyu Notable Losses: Lost to Ukyo
This list wouldn't be complete without this man. Nonpareil is truly one of the greatest fighters of all time. He is easily the greatest TB fighter of ll time. Although he's not undefeated, he's still the most dominant TB fighter ever. He's been the best for at least a decade now.
The question rises when it comes to Nonpareil's speed fighting ability. Nonpareil defeated MG twice in what today would be called S20. He refused to fight MG in anything other than this style. He didn't understand the rationale behind why the connects were longer than the dodges. He also wanted counters to be 40 words.
Never the less, they fought and Nonpareil won 5-2. A while later they rematched and he won 5-3. MG was humble in defeat and hailed him as the GOAT. Afterwards, Hiro began to question whether it was possible for someone to kick out 20+ word posts with over the top description with perfect grammar & punctuation in 2-3 seconds. Maybe he was just that fast. Another strange thing is the fact that he never dodged any attacks. He said he didn't see the point behind dodging when you can't win a fight that way. It makes sense if you're that fast but it's still highly unusual.
Lastly, the main reason why Nonpareil is an honorary member of this list is because he can't fight in anything but this style. If he's that fast in 20+ then his T2 should be unstoppable. 20+ is the perfect style for a cheater because it's impossible for anyone to be able to type fast enough to keep up. If he can erase this gray area then he'd be ranked #3. Also when he tried T2 he got blown out by Ukyo.
Vs. Circ Speed: Circ gets the nod here. TB: Nonpareil is the GOAT. Hybrid: No data from either, but since Nonpareil was good in longer styles he gets the nod.
Vs. Flik Speed: Flik TB: Nonpareil Hybrid: Nonpareil
Vs. Kyros Speed: Kyros TB: Nonpareil Hybrid: Nonpareil
#2. Kael Trained By: Quickhand / MG Homechat: Truongs DBZ Fighting Out Of: RC Records: Fastest Fighter of All Time Accomplishments: Unified Speed and TB
Vs. Nonpareil Speed: Kael by a longshot. TB: Although Kael may have beaten him, Nonpareil still gets the nod here because he's done way more. Hybrid: Kael by blowout.
Vs. Circ Speed: Kael TB: Circ Hybrid: Kael
Vs. Flik Speed: Kael TB: Flik Hybrid: Kael
Vs. Kyros Speed: Kael TB: Kael Hybrid: Kael
#1. Quickhand / Mystic Gogeta (MG) Trained By: Aalok and Tremere Homechat: Donnies DBZ Fighting Out Of: Godhand Gym Records: The Greatest Speed Fighter of All Time -The Greatest Hybrid Fighter of All Time -Unified All 3 Divisions
This man is the greateast textual combatant ever. He has dominated the fight game since 2001. He's retired and he's still kicking everyone's ass. In speed, he possesses the greatest skill a fighter can have, adaptability. He uses this to conquer those faster than him. In TB there are few if any who can match his technical ability. He may not be the best writer in the world but he doesn't try or want to be. He learned all 3 styles of fighting and conquered 2 while unifying all 3. He's the only fighter to do that.
Vs. Kael Speed: This is the greatest rivalry of all time. MG and Kael have probably fought more than any other 2 fighters. MG gets the nod since he's the GOAT.
TB: These two have never finished a fight in TB. Although they have accomplished the same amount, we'll give Kael the nod.
Hybrid: MG gets the nod here quite easily.
Vs. Nonpareil Speed: MG TB: Nonpareil Hybrid: MG
Vs. Circ Speed: MG by domination TB: Circ Hybrid: MG
Vs. Flik Speed: MG TB: Flik Hybrid: MG
Vs. Kyros Speed: MG TB: Kyros Hybrid: MG
All Hail the King!
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Post by MG on Oct 13, 2010 12:20:53 GMT -5
I'm going to really be revamping this in the next day or so so stay tuned. Most important post in RP Fighting history.
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Post by David on Jul 22, 2011 12:19:45 GMT -5
Hey, ^_^ I was just surfing the web in search of some old posts I made on a site which apparently no longer exists, when I suddenly came across this thread. I recognized a few of the names some of you mentioned (I googled them, lol), and I do say, what an interesting topic. In my personal opinion, I think the Shinjou Clan had some of the best fighters "ever". I saw a few of their names mentioned on your site here, and immediately it caught my attention. Two of the names you have mentioned on your site, I know well, because I've fought both of them before. Needless to say, I lost both times. Those names are Seiryou Shinjou, and Heiryou Shinjou, also listed on your site under the names of Eric (Nonpareil/Dynasty) and Wes (Goutetsu/Dionysus). www.historyofrp.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=two&action=display&thread=468I had a run in with the Shinjou Clan a long long time ago, I think around the same time "Seiryou Shinjou and his brother Heiryou Shinjou became famous for their own Shinjou Temple style hopping from chat to chat and defeating everyone in their sight" (to quote your timeline, lol). Only it wasn't called the Shinjou Temple, it was called Toushindera or something like that. I fought Seiryou Shinjou using T1, T2 and Auto Freeform, but all three times he defeated me with his bare hands. That might not sound like a big deal, but I was actually trained by Rias, Matt, Scias, Circ, and a few other people whose names you have mentioned on your site. I also have real life experience in martial arts training. Before I fought Eric/Seiryou, I had never lost a battle in roleplay fighting. After he tossed me around like a rag doll, I had the pleasure of facing off with his brother Wes/Heiryou (I think they're actual brothers in real life too, aren't they?). Heiryou told me he was trained in textual combat by his brother Seiryou, which I thought was strange because I found Heiryou's T1 skills to be remarkably better to Seiryou's T1 skills. However, Seiryou's T2 skills definately surpassed his brother Heiryou's T2 skills. Seiryou was obviously the faster fighter, but Heiryou seemed to be a more clever strategist to me. Either way, they both somehow managed to scar my undefeated perfect record, and they did it one right after the other like I was nothing but a toy for them to play with. I can't believe you guys actually know someone I used to know. It's been years since I've seen any mention of the Shinjou Clan (where did you get your information from?). Do the Shinjou twins still compete in online fighting? Is there any way I might be able to contact Heiryou Shinjou? I would very much like to speak with him again. His brother never liked me, he was always cocky towards me, but Heiryou was always more calm and friendly to people. The two of them were like Yin/Yang together, and I think they actually fought each other once or twice at my old site. Seiryou had raw untamed power, supported by a strong confidence in himself, whereas Heiryou showed an amazing knowledge of martial art techniques supported by his refined psychology. But any way, if I had a chance to voice my opinion on who I think the greatest online fighter of all time was, I'd have to say it's a tie between Seiryou Shinjou and Heiryou Shinjou. I'm the third best fighter of all time, of course J/K Actually, if I had to choose a fighter from today's era, it would have to be Transcendent Al from Roleplayerguild, who is currently I think one of the best T1 fighters around. He still isn't as good as the combined forces of the Shinjou, but for today's standards, I'd say he definately is one of the best along with RequiemX. Transcendent Al is actually in a Roleplayerguild fighting tournament right now which is being hosted by RequiemX, so that might be entertaining to watch if you're ever on Roleplayerguild. Any ways, kudos!!
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Post by MG on Aug 8, 2011 10:41:02 GMT -5
I was unaware that there was an entire clan of Shinjou's. I agree that Nonpareil and Dionysus are both outstanding fighters, but they fall short of the accolades you're giving them.
Nonpareil is certainly a great fighter and would without a doubt be in the argument for all time supremacy if he had accomplished more in T2 and thus erased the gray cloud hanging over his speed career. Not too much more to say on this other than that. I pretty much discussed everything already.
As for Dionysus, he is no where near as good as Nonpareil. His TB game is solid, but his speed fighting abilities leave much to be desired.
Transcendant Al can't be one of the greatest fighters of all time if he's only the best T1 fighter around right now. I've never heard of him or RequiemX. If I had to pick, I'd say that currently Lysander is the best fighter around.
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Dirge
Contender
Posts: 111
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Post by Dirge on Oct 14, 2011 10:49:55 GMT -5
Um. I dunno about that. I saw Nonpareil fight and I didn't think he was anything impressive, if for the fact that he lost against Ran after performing a completely dumb move.
Circ's decent, his writing is good, but I dunno about his strategy. I think he's somewhat flawed in the latter.
You should probably review the list after doing some more research. If this is the "greatest fighters of all time" thread, there're a lot, and I mean a lot, of people missing.
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Stalker
Prospect
"Get SET to get DECKED mother f**ker." YGO Season 4
Posts: 91
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Post by Stalker on Oct 14, 2011 11:14:18 GMT -5
The Greatest Fighters of All Time In My Opinion*
Fixed. Although I see some easily recognizable names, I wouldn't have the personal experience with any of them to give an appropriate rank. Being as Hybrid is pretty much dead, I say this list is in serious need of revision and you should make a more clear criteria for judging the people on it. Your method of selection does NOT get the nod for now.
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Post by MG on Oct 17, 2011 9:32:40 GMT -5
Yes, Nonpareil definitely has some flaws, as do we all. He's clearly not undefeated. Even with that, he's still the most dominant turn based fighter ever. I've just seen the man do things that I haven't seen anyone else do. He's beaten numerous world class opponents at the same time. He even beat my boy, Darien Shields (one of, if not the top TB fighter(s) in Chars at the time) in 3 posts. I remember it like it was yesterday. Let me tell you what Darien said. "I can't explain it. It's like he knows what I'm going to do before I do it. I've never fought anyone like this. This guy is different." Until you show me someone with a more impressive resume than Nonpareil's, then he's the best. Period.
The fact that you can sit up here and poke holes in people's skills doesn't mean anything. Like I said before, we all have flaws. This is the HoF for the unified division, not just for TB. You're up here scrutinizing Circ's turn-based abilities. You have to take into account his speed fighting skills as well. When you look at the totality of circumstances, he deserves his spot. You say that there are a lot of people missing. Like who?
Stalker, who are you? If you don't have any experience with the fighters listed here then this topic is probably over your head. I'm pretty sure of it with you saying Hybrid being dead is a cause for revision. The fact that YOU (again, who the hell are you?) think that hybrid is dead is irrelevant. It's still the closest thing we have to a bridge between speed and TB.
Also, quit complaining about things and offer some solutions. If you sincerely feel that this list is inadequate, tell me how. You say it's in need of revisions; what revisions? I think that the criteria I stated is pretty clear. Do you have something better in mind? Give me useful feedback. Don't just come up here and troll.
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Stalker
Prospect
"Get SET to get DECKED mother f**ker." YGO Season 4
Posts: 91
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Post by Stalker on Oct 18, 2011 2:20:49 GMT -5
Stalker, who are you? If you don't have any experience with the fighters listed here then this topic is probably over your head. I'm pretty sure of it with you saying Hybrid being dead is a cause for revision. The fact that YOU (again, who the hell are you?) think that hybrid is dead is irrelevant. It's still the closest thing we have to a bridge between speed and TB. Also, quit complaining about things and offer some solutions. If you sincerely feel that this list is inadequate, tell me how. You say it's in need of revisions; what revisions? I think that the criteria I stated is pretty clear. Do you have something better in mind? Give me useful feedback. Don't just come up here and troll. Your illogical reasoning as to why any of these fighters hold merit is simply hearsay and if you consulted anyone when formulating such a list then you should offer evidence. You are listing goals of other people from memory; if you don't have proper citation then you could be pulling half of this out of your ass (which you are). Hybrid being dead is not just my opinion and based on your criteria, it becomes very relevant. I could ask multiple people prominent in current RP communities and give you testimonies as to how little Hybrid is actually practiced anywhere on the Internet. Speed and Para were meant to be separate and I don't know why you would want to conjoin them to begin with. It's like blending MMA with Boxing and Prize Fighting: They just don't mix because the rules are too different. Speed fighting can already be altered to abide by logical reasoning but it does not work outside of theory. Logically, every post in speed fighting would be some form of a counter because they're the most effective means of breaking the opponent's stride. Created By: Animelab Description: Hybrid is like an evolved version of Freeform. Its creators considered it as the ultimate form of fighting, the long sought blend between T1 and T2. There are no word limits: instead, there are line limits. Each post must be atleast two lines. Another unique thing about this style is the fact that it requires stancing or an opening post. There is no range needed. There is also no hit limit, so the fighters can kill each other with the first hit. I'm sorry, did you just recycle the rules for T1 but make it so you can write as fast as you can and threw in some form of a minimum word limit? Not every chat/forum has the same space for a line break so that's completely unrealistic. Looking at your own Hybrid threads, there's only ONE fight. You fought it. Looks dead to me. Want some creative criticism as to how it should be fixed? Less egotism, eliminate a broken form of Roleplaying that generally only appeals to the speed portion in how it is practiced and find me some sources to back up your claims about any of these fighters, especially yourself. G'day P.S. Being as you're going on things you've heard or seen, I'VE HEARD great things about every fighter on this list EXCEPT for you. Their names are literally legendary among the Roleplayers I associate with. I hadn't even heard a damn peep about the name Mystic Gogeta until 2010. I think this list needs a new number one. Once more, MG does not get the nod.
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Dirge
Contender
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Post by Dirge on Oct 18, 2011 12:10:09 GMT -5
Ooookay, let me start tearing this up. Yes, Nonpareil definitely has some flaws, as do we all. He's clearly not undefeated. Even with that, he's still the most dominant turn based fighter ever. That you know of. I've just seen the man do things that I haven't seen anyone else do. He's beaten numerous world class opponents at the same time. He even beat my boy, Darien Shields (one of, if not the top TB fighter(s) in Chars at the time) in 3 posts. I remember it like it was yesterday. Further clarifying: That you know of.Let me tell you what Darien said. "I can't explain it. It's like he knows what I'm going to do before I do it. I've never fought anyone like this. This guy is different." Until you show me someone with a more impressive resume than Nonpareil's, then he's the best. Period. -I- don't have to show you. If you're putting a list together, then it's obvious that you're doing the research. The selection method you're using is downright pathetic, in my eyes. Going by that logic, if I beat someone -once- in TB, Speed, and Hybrid, I'd automatically gain the rank of GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME, even if it was only by a stroke of luck that I won. There're a lot of variables that influence a title. The way this list stands right now? Might as well change the name of the thread altogether and give it the name Stalker gave it. The fact that you can sit up here and poke holes in people's skills doesn't mean anything. It does, actually. The "greatest fighter(s) of all time" wouldn't have many flaws for me or anyone else to poke holes at. Like I said before, we all have flaws. And some have more flaws than others. This is the HoF for the unified division, not just for TB. You're up here scrutinizing Circ's turn-based abilities. You have to take into account his speed fighting skills as well. Never saw him fighting speed, as his specialty is turn-based or T1 and/or forum RP, from what I know. When you look at the totality of circumstances, he deserves his spot. You say that there are a lot of people missing. Like who? I really, really want to avoid namedropping since I'm not the thread OP. Do your research, then I might drop a few names for you to look into. Stalker, who are you? If you don't have any experience with the fighters listed here then this topic is probably over your head. I'm pretty sure of it with you saying Hybrid being dead is a cause for revision. The fact that YOU (again, who the hell are you?) think that hybrid is dead is irrelevant. It's still the closest thing we have to a bridge between speed and TB. And no one practices it anymore. If it is practiced, it's only by two or three people, namely Kaiba, Sogetsu, and I dunno who else. I'm pretty sure a style's considered dead when the vast majority doesn't practice it anymore. Hell, half the people I've mentioned Hybrid to (in this generation and a few from older generations) didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. It's dead until you or anyone else shows the fighting community otherwise.
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Darth
Contender
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Post by Darth on Oct 23, 2011 16:32:33 GMT -5
The biggest issue with this list - in fact, probably with any list regarding roleplayers - is that it's ultimately 1) biased and 2) unverifiable. That sounds like a bit of an accusation towards MG, right? It's not.
Being biased doesn't necessarily mean he's putting people on the list that he likes, or that he's consciously upping some people and downing others. It's an unconscious thing that most of us do; it's based on a little concept called familiarity. Ultimately, MG - or me, or Dirge, or anyone who tries to put together a list like this - is going to fall back on the information that we have on hand, which is always going to involve those that we know.
Take three different people and have them create lists. Their lists will probably be different unless they hail from the same circles, because generally speaking, anytime shit like this comes up, we ultimately frame it in the familiarity of the communities we know. No one is going to create a top 10 list and put some fucker they've never heard of on there. Said fucker could be the best in the world, but they're not going on that list unless the person making the list is aware of them.
Which leads on to the next point: the fact that this list is, basically, an opinion; unverifiable. Because this list is basically drawn up solely from MG's experiences (and perhaps those of some others), it's going to be an incomplete survey. It simply doesn't account for every community of fighters - it only accounts for those the maker is in contact with. Which means that - very likely - it isn't accurate. Not in the sense of being a list of "The Greatest Fighters of All Time."
It'd be more accurate to call the list "The Greatest Fighters MG has met/heard of/seen." Things like "The Greatest of All Time" or "The best X or Y fighter" or "The Top Ten" don't exist in T1, or likely even in T2. Because, chances are, no one's gonna sit there and account for every single community. Fuck, you'd be lucky to FIND every community out there. The biggest issue is the fact that it's just not accurate. I'll use the same statement I've used before: these sort of lists are always limited to whichever circlejerk you're a part of. There could be whole groups of people out there that could fit into this list, but no one's gonna account for them if they've never met them, am I right? It's not a good thing, it's not a bad thing, it's just the way things are.
But, I mean, if you want to try and find, visit, and participate in every T1/T2 community out there to ensure complete and total accuracy.. be my guest.
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Post by MG on Nov 21, 2011 13:57:56 GMT -5
Stalker, I already stated in the Qualifications thread that I did in fact attempt to consult people who the RP community held in high esteem, the most notable being Martindale. I also said that he was too biased so I had to trash the idea of getting other peoples perspectives. I’m not sure whether you know this or not, but the majority of people who RP have poor levels of character. They misconstrue the truth and bend it to be what they want it to be. When asked about who’s the greatest fighter of all time, certain individuals will lie and say it’s not me, even when they in fact know it is me.
Contrary to what you may believe I am not pulling this out of my ass. I wouldn’t create this site to get up here and lie. Everytime that I’ve said that I’ve beat someone in a certain fashion and that person has showed up here, they’ve validated it. I even admitted that I’ve lost to a few people. All I’m interested in is the truth. I have no intentions on misconstruing it in any way. You also mention me not having citation. Let me ask you something. If Floyd Mayweather Jr., the greatest fighter in the world, wrote a book about boxing, would he be expected to cite lesser fighters? No he wouldn’t. He’s already the best; why would he have to cite someone just because they’ve already published books on boxing? He has more knowledge on boxing than any other person on the planet. Therefore what he says will hold more weight than what anyone else says. It’s the same situation here. After attempting to get some references, I realized that people are either too biased or don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
You’re misunderstanding what I meant when I said hybrid being irrelevant doesn’t matter. You have to understand that the top five fighters are no longer relevant. We’re all retired. Therefore, the fact that hybrid is no longer practiced is in fact irrelevant because the fighters that this thread is about are also irrelevant. When we were around and active, hybrid was in fact alive and well.
The purpose of joining Speed and Para is to enable us to determine the greatest fighter. For instance, before MMA came on the scene, there were a lot of different types of martial artists in the world. You had karate-ka’s, kung fu specialists, wrestlers, jujitsu black belts, boxers, etc. Certain individuals would become champions in their respective crafts, but they could never say that they were in fact the undisputed best fighter in the world. Then, MMA came along and mixed everything together. We now know who the best fighter in the world is. We no longer have to speculate. That’s what hybrid does. It takes the two art forms, T1 and T2, and comes closest to finding a mutual grounds between the two. Your analogy of blending MMA and boxing is off; boxing is already a subset of MMA. They can’t be blended any more than they already are.
This whole “MG is egotistical” thing has to stop. You people say I’m egotistical; I say I’m telling it like it is. I can’t help it that I’m the best. The goal of every fighter on this forum should be to be the best. So in that sense, every fighter should have supreme confidence in their abilities. I know I do. I’ve always had the idea that lesser, not as accomplished individuals call you egotistical when they can’t do what you’ve done. They hate the fact that you can go around bragging about something that they will probably never be able to do. When you think about it, people who are deemed “egotistical” are usually the most sucessful. Ali was called egotistical; he’s the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time, bar none. Mayweather is called egotistical; he’s the greatest fighter in the world at the moment, bar none. Kael is called egostical; he’s one of the greatest fighters of all time. Nonpareil is called egostistical; he’s arguably the greatest TB fighter of all time. I could go on and on. Call me egostical when I’m up here claiming I’m the best and getting my ass whooped. Call me egotistical when what I’m saying can’t be backed up. I’m going to stop here, because although your post was cynical, I see that you are trying to change and I respect that.
Dirge, you clearly haven’t been doing your research on the information that has been put out on this site. I have said time and time again that a single win over someone doesn’t mean you’re the better fighter. See qualifications. Also, understand that the qualifications are just a means to an end. That end is establishing the greatest fighter of all time. I am unaware of any fighter having accomplished more in this game than I have. However, my loyalty is to the truth. If you know someone who has, tell me.
Darth, you bring up some valid points but Kael has already commented on this. I can’t find the thread though so I’ll comment on it myself. What you’re saying will always be the case when it comes to determining the greatest in anything. There might be a basketball player out there who’s better than Michael Jordan; however, we can only go by what we know, and what we know is that MJ is the best. There might be a fighter out there that would own Mayweather; however, as we have no way of validating this possibility, we have to go with the fact that Mayweather is the best. There might be a group of basketball players out there who are superior to the Mavericks; however, since we don’t know if they do for a fact exist, the Mavericks are the 2011 NBA Champions. See what I’m saying? There will always be speculation, but if we were to take that into account, nobody would ever be able to say that they’re the best at anything.
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Stalker
Prospect
"Get SET to get DECKED mother f**ker." YGO Season 4
Posts: 91
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Post by Stalker on Nov 21, 2011 14:10:33 GMT -5
I’m not sure whether you know this or not, but the majority of people who RP have poor levels of character. They misconstrue the truth and bend it to be what they want it to be. When asked about who’s the greatest fighter of all time, certain individuals will lie and say it’s not me, even when they in fact know it is me. I don't know if that's irony, hypocrisy or you trolling. ._. People are entitled to their opinions. You are perhaps Mayweather incarnated and I hope, as of 2012, a Mexican puts you flat on your ass.
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Darth
Contender
Posts: 116
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Post by Darth on Nov 21, 2011 19:26:01 GMT -5
Alright.
Yeah, and that should be sufficient reasoning to understand why claiming to be the top "anything" - especially in something as disjointed as T1 or T2, considering how many communities exist that are entirely out of touch with one another.
My point is specifically in regards to considering oneself in the top ten period, or as the greatest of all time - if you want to claim to be the best of X or Y community, that's an entirely different matter. That can be more easily verified, and is actually a reasonable claim because most, if not all variables can be taken into account.
I'm not here to argue your opinion, or tell you that you're opinion is wrong - that's what douchebags do; you can have your opinion regarding what's what. I'm purely arguing the logic behind this thread and those like it, not only because I think it's incorrect, but also because I think recognizing that these lists aren't fact would promote a little more activity.
The thing with MJ is, that's even subject to opinion. I personally think he's the best player to ever touch a basketball in the NBA, but that isn't a fact. It's an opinion. An opinion that isn't even universal amongst fans or basketball experts.
Mayweather's position as "the best" is not the same as "the greatest of all time." It means that he's the best in boxing right now. Which is something we can actually say - as a fact. Now, why could we do that? Because we have records of every win/loss by everyone in the federations and leagues that Mayweather boxes in, we have counters for every punch thrown, for every knock-down.
Unlike in this thread, which is based on incomplete information, the statement that Mayweather is the best boxer alive can be supported by factual information that accounts for every professional boxer, as well as all Olympian boxers.
This analogy doesn't work for this thread for many reasons. Firstly, Mayweather's position as the best is based on his position in the leagues and federations of professional boxers. These are encompassing, expansive organizations.. and they have absolutely zero equivalent in roleplaying. There isn't even "the community." We have no all-encompassing community that accounts for all roleplayers or all fighters.
And, as I pointed out - Mayweather's position is validated by facts, not by personal opinion. People argue all the time over who's the "greatest of all time" in boxing, but people can't argue very well with the numbers that support Mayweather being the baddest motherfucker in boxing right now, much as Emelianenko is likely one of the best MMA fighters. All that is supported by factual information, and information that is actually total and complete.
Now, one might say that amateurs aren't accounted fors, but that's because such a differentiation exists in boxing - it does not exist in roleplay, however fervently some people might wish or think otherwise. There's nothing - no league, no federation, no impartial, objective concept or group which encompasses all roleplayers - that separates anyone from anyone else. There's only our own biases and views.
Whether or not a group of five blokes from out of bumfuck nowhere can beat the Mavericks has absolutely zero influence on their position as NBA champs. Because the NBA is a self-contained entity composed of a community of teams/players.
In fact, the NBA is actually a perfect analogy for what I'm saying here - it's like a community. Without touching on irrelevant concepts like being professionals, being paid, etc, their championship is utterly self-contained. Being the NBA champs makes you.. the NBA champs. Much like being the best fighter in AnimeLab (as a random example) makes you the best fighter in AnimeLab. Not the best ever, or even "the best" in the context of all communities.
The Olympics might be another "community" if you will - same with the WNBA, and the NCAA divisions. Each is self-contained, and their championships are solely designed to determine whose the best out of their communities. Now, you could say that the NBA is the best "group" - but that would also be based on fact via what we can gather of scores, stats, and what have you. The statement that one group or community is better than another in roleplay is tenuous at best, and can only be made if one community utterly trounces another.
If the two aren't even aware of one another, the statement holds zero water.
I'm not making speculations - I'm pointing out that there are large, important flaws in the logic of this thread, and of several others. Speculating is what people do when they argue opinion over whether Sugar Ray Robinson is better than Mayweather Jr., speculating is what this list ist - because it's based on opinion and on what you know of roleplayers and communities. It's not fact, and certainly not information which encompasses all players of "the game" as it were - it's simply speculation based on what YOU know.
And - again - there's no problem with that, so long as it's being acknowledged. I've yet to see anything that factually backs up this thread, or the top ten T1 thread, or the top T2 thread, which is because these things aren't ever going to be backed up factually, only by our perceptions, biases, and the breadth and scope of our own knowledge.
Again: by all means, if this is YOUR opinion of the top ten fighters, that's fine and dandy. I'm not here to argue that you're wrong for having your own opinion. I'm just saying that treating that opinion as being anything even remotely approaching a facsimile of fact is a) wrong and b) illogical, and that ought to be accounted for.
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Post by Liberazi Dexter on Nov 23, 2011 1:52:40 GMT -5
I'm going to have to agree with Dirge, Stalker, and Darth on this one. This list of fighters really is just based on someone's opinion, after all. There is no possible way to determine who the "greatest on-line fighter of all time" is, nor is it even possible to limit that accomplishment to one single group. Everything that you are saying, Quickhand, is purely based on your own experience and knowledge.
Now what if, let's say, some of these fighters on your list were members of a clan? Now you put any of them against one another, and let them fight. If they are of equal skill, then who is the greater fighter? One clan will say that they're member had the upper hand, while the rival clan will say that their own fighter was better. You simply cannot present the truth without being one-sided. The truth of course is that neither fighter is greater than the other. Both are great.
Now what if, let's say, you have a newer fighter who just became famous for his overall skills in on-line fighting? This newer fighter has only been in 10 fights, but he is undefeated. Now let's say you have a veteran fighter who has been around the block quite a few times. He's been in over 20 fights and remains undefeated. Now, just to top it off, let's say you have a retired fighter who no longer roleplays. This retired fighter hasn't been around for years, but he has over 100 fights and remains undefeated. Who then is the best fighter? How do you even compare them together?
Better yet, what would they do? Would they want to be compared to other fighters of the same calibur? Or would they just humble themselves, and consider all fighters great? My teacher told me to respect all fighters, big or small, because there is something truly "great" that can be learned from all of them.
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Post by Representing on Aug 4, 2015 20:00:08 GMT -5
The warriors mentioned on this thread would be easy fodder for middle tier text players on Runescape W42. They take their combat VERY seriously. It's a big ocean out there, so don't just hang around the pond.
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